What Fee Model Best Captures the Value I Deliver?

The way financial advisors charge for their services is evolving—but with so many models out there, how do you choose the right one?

In this episode of Kick It Open, host Shelby Nicholl sits down with Julia Lilly, founder of Ryerson Financial, to cut through the confusion. Julia shares her journey from the broker-dealer world to launching her fee-for-service financial planning firm, built on transparency and client empowerment.

We dive into the pros and cons of different pricing models, the rise of advice-only planning, and how Julia built her firm from the ground up—including the tech she uses to power her unique client experience.

If you’re an advisor rethinking your revenue model—or a client wondering what you’re really paying for—this episode is a must-listen.

00:00 Introduction to Financial Health Checkups 

00:22 Welcome to the Kick It Open Podcast 

00:29 Meet Julia Lilly: Wealth Management Expert 

01:23 Julia's Journey in Wealth Management 

02:37 Understanding Financial Planning Models 

05:20 The Fee for Service Model 

06:07 Client Impact and Transparency 

07:04 Empowering Clients in Financial Planning 

09:19 Challenges and Rewards of Fee-Only Planning 

15:46 Solopreneurship and Mastermind Groups 

23:02 Tech Tools and Cybersecurity 

25:02 Future Growth and Trends in Financial Planning 

31:11 Advice for Aspiring Financial Planners 

33:20 Conclusion and Final Thoughts 

Schedule a discovery call with Shelby Nicholl: Zoom Scheduler

Produced by Shelby Nicholl.
Edited by Aaron Sherman.

Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/ra/let-good-times-roll License code: EV5ON7Y3CSESDSEU

Transcript

Julia Lilly: 0:00

when I talk with clients about explaining the value, I try to equate it to kind of a financial health checkup. I want to do a full diagnostic. you're investing into your financial health we're not just looking at an investment strategy. We're looking at all the different pieces of their financial life. So that's really how I framed the why behind working with me and my model.

Shelby Nicholl: 0:22

Welcome back to the Kick It Open podcast. I'm your host, Shelby Nichol. I'm really excited for today's conversation. I've invited Julia Lilly to join me today. solopreneur, runner of Ryerson Financial. And she's worked in the wealth management industry for decades. Her background includes serving in the home office of a traditional broker dealer, acting as an advisor in an RIA, and now operating her own fee for planning firm. I couldn't think of anyone better to share their perspective on how our industry charges clients for the services it provides, and who could talk about the up and coming revolution of fee for plan or fee for service that we're starting to see. there has been a conversation within the wealth management industry about how this industry should charge clients for the value that advisors provide. It's a growing area and one that is maybe a little less understood by many of us in the industry. I'm so glad that Julia agreed to come on the show. Welcome, Julia. So welcome, Julia. I'm really excited to have this conversation with you today. Thank you for being here.

Julia Lilly: 1:31

Thank you, Shelby, for including me. I'm excited.

Shelby Nicholl: 1:34

So, as we get started, one of the things I love to do at the beginning is just to hear from you. What is your journey in wealth management?

Julia Lilly: 1:43

I laugh. Journey is a very good word because it's been a bit of a journey. So I've always worked in finance, but about 10 years ago, I joined a broker dealer doing home office work. So I wasn't doing client facing work, but my job there was to better inform the client. Financial planning experience and just get a better handle on really what is financial planning and what the client values in the experience. I got my CFP. I left the broker dealer. And then joined an assets under management firm. So it was a firm that works with clients based on the assets that we manage and we provide that ongoing relationship. About three years ago, we moved to the Houston, Texas area. And at that time, I decided I love financial planning, but I wanted the freedom and flexibility. So three years ago, I started Ryerson Financial as an advice only flat fee planning firm.

Shelby Nicholl: 2:38

That is such a different experience than what you saw inside of the broker dealer and even inside of your AUM based firm. So just to level set for everyone, let's just Talk about those models because they're really around what is the advice being provided and then what, how are they priced? How is that advice priced and charged for? Can you kind of talk about those options?

Julia Lilly: 3:01

Yeah. I mean, I laugh. I'm a student of this space. I'm close to it and I find it confusing. So I think from a client experience, people looking to partner with an advisor. It's overwhelming because the language is nuanced and what does it all mean and how does it actually work in practice? There's times when I see models advertised and I have to go and research exactly what that means. So there's kind of three primary methods at this point in, the financial planning landscape that I'm aware of. It's more that commission based. So that is pure transactional. Whatever transaction you perform with an advisor, you're paying a commission. Sometimes whether you know it or not. It could be baked into the financial product that you're purchasing. It could be more transparent where it's, you know, just a line item that says in order to buy this particular asset. You have to pay this amount of money. So that's step one. Then there's the assets under management. So that's where you're paying to work with an advisor based on the assets that an advisor manages. So it's typically in a range from like 1 percent to 3 percent of your assets under management that an And have that kind of on call support and someone watching your portfolio. The third model is really this kind of growing space, which is kind of flat fee slash fee for service. Where people are trying to say, because it's confusing that even asset under management will say we're a flat fee. Because you're not paying that commission, but a true flat fee means it doesn't matter how many assets you have, you pay one very transparent dollar amount for the relationship. That's like 10, 000 foot view of the like clean silos, but even within each of those, there's nuances around how people approach delivering the service to clients.

Shelby Nicholl: 5:02

Absolutely. And there's even people who are combining those models, right? And they might say for your financial plan, I'm going to charge you a certain fee. And then if you want me to manage your assets, I charge an AUM based fee. So you see a little bit of blending there.

Julia Lilly: 5:18

Exactly. And so there, people say, I'm fee only, but really they're fee based because they're charging the AUM, plus they're potentially selling insurance contracts where they're getting paid a commission for that insurance contract.

Shelby Nicholl: 5:33

So you chose to go this fee for service, fee only model, whatever words we want to put on that.

Julia Lilly: 5:39

I know it's very confusing. So where I landed is that I just wanted more transparency. That was one of the big things I learned, even working with the broker dealer. When I said I did more of the behind the scenes, the home office support, there are a lot of people who are getting financial planning services and thought I pay nothing. For this financial planning journey, whereas they don't realize embedded within each of the products that they own, they are paying a fee to the advisor that's just not transparent. So for me, when I started the firm here in Houston, my big motivation was to put the client more in the driver's seat so that they understood what they're paying and then the value that they're getting for it.

Shelby Nicholl: 6:21

So how has that kind of impacted your clients? Because I love that they, that it's so transparent that they can see their value. When you describe to them your value and the pricing, how do you say that? what is kind of your model there? Is there differences in complexity of clients?

Julia Lilly: 6:38

You know, I've tried to make it as simple as possible. sometimes that works in my favor. Sometimes that doesn't, because you're right, there are nuances and some are more complex than others. But when I talk with clients about explaining the value, I try to equate it to kind of a financial health checkup. So the reason to do it and to partner with me is that I want to do a full diagnostic. You know, you're committing and investing into your financial health so that we're not just looking at an investment strategy. We're looking at all the different pieces of their financial life. So that's really how I framed the why behind working with me and my model. And also one other nuance of the way that I'm approaching my service offering is that I'm advice only. which means that I don't require clients to move assets to a specific custodian. I'm not going to be the one placing a trade on a client's behalf. Instead, I want the client to be in the driver's seat. I coach, I provide a lot of strategy. We log in together even and look at their dashboard at their custodian of choice. But I'm not the gatekeeper to managing that, that investment strategy.

Shelby Nicholl: 7:49

So interesting. So it's a very different kind of psychological model in some ways, right? Because I think about being in the broker dealer and it is often around an advisor and almost this sort of parental. manner with their clients, the advisor is providing the recommendations, the client is saying yes, in many cases the advisor is the portfolio manager and working as an FA as PM and so they're actually making all those choices on behalf of the client with the client's needs and wants. Your philosophy is very much about, it sounds to me like empowering the, the investor and they make the choices. They are understanding those choices in a, maybe a different, deeper way.

Julia Lilly: 8:41

That's my goal is to kind of pull back a little bit of the curtain of how all of these financial products work and the why behind choosing different investments. My struggle is a lot of times that. advisor as a PM, they're just going into models that a client could very well do on their own. And they're getting rebalanced within the ETF and more index passive strategy that we've a little bit over engineered and we need to do that. And some clients really want to just be able to say, I want to hand it all over. I don't even want to look at it. I don't want to think about it. And when I work with clients. I'm just saying, let's put the plan in place and then revisit it again in a year, but really not try to over engineer what's happening on the investment strategy side of things.

Shelby Nicholl: 9:26

So interesting. You know, when we reconnected and I heard about your practice, I thought to myself, gosh, this is really cool. This industry has been talking about kind of a movement towards, pay for advice, advice for fees, sort of an approach, but it also sounds really hard. Have you found it to be harder, easier than the other models? What's your take on that?

Julia Lilly: 9:52

it's an and, you know, some parts are harder and some parts are easier from a compliance standpoint. Selfishly, it's a lot easier for me not to have to feel like I'm babysitting a lot of accounts and gives me more peace of mind on going to the independent route where I'm a registered investment advisor, but I'm a solopreneur. And so that's a lot of balls to juggle in addition to the operations and everything else. So that was for me, one big driver, but then the other piece being to really put the client in the driver's seat so that they feel more ownership One of the biggest struggles in any financial planning Model is the implementation. We can come up with the best strategy, but if the client just finds inertia, you know, different reasons not to pursue, whether it's the insurance that's recommended or the investments and transferring assets and signing the paperwork, all that stuff just becomes the stickiness and the process. And so I look at my role as serving as an accountability partner over four months, we're going to meet regularly so that we check in on, okay, last time we said we were going to get this done. How's that going? Where are we? So we keep the momentum, but that is the hardest part, whether it's my model or any of the models is to help clients get out of, quite frankly, their own way

Shelby Nicholl: 11:06

Yeah. So what are some of the deliverables that you're working on in those four months as you're working with clients so deeply in those first four months?

Julia Lilly: 11:16

So one of the other drivers for me on wanting to go this route is that I am Really passionate that financial planning is great. You can do all the technical elements, but the big differentiators is the behaviors. And so I start every engagement by having clients take what I call the Myers Briggs of their financial health, you know, their financial mindset. And so that first meeting, we review the results of that assessment. And the reason I like it is because rather than just, taking this assessment, we're able to look at real data that says, Hey, the questions you answered indicate that spending gives you a lot of joy. Let's talk about that more and how that feeds into your financial habits, like your, your money mindset that can drive the outcome ultimately of your financial plan. So that first meeting we're dedicated entirely talking about this money mindset and then we meet another really 4 to 5 times over that 4 month period to cover each of the technical elements of building a financial plan. And in every meeting. We have deliverables where we walk through those decks that are customized to that client's individual situation. Outside of that, I do use tech. You know, I use a financial planning software. I use Right Capital. And then also a budgeting tool that's been really helpful for clients is called Monarch Money. And the reason I like that one is that I kind of explain it as a shining a flashlight on your spend plan. We can plan our cashflow all day long, but unless we actually look at what's happening, we won't be able to move the needle on some of those goals that we've laid out. So it's kind of a multi pronged approach from a deliverable standpoint. I often tell clients at the beginning of the engagement, you're not going to leave this experience with like a hundred page document that just says, here's what you need to do. Good luck, you can die at 99 and this is what it'll look like. It's much more iterative than that, but, we work together along the way.

Shelby Nicholl: 13:15

That's great. And then you've set up that plan in those first four months. Do you then meet with them on an ongoing basis after that? Or what does the engagement look like after those first four months?

Julia Lilly: 13:26

So those first four months sets the foundation. And then once we're through there, they kind of graduate, they still have access to the tools that we've shared, the Monarch money and the right capital for a specific period of time. So rather than any kind of subscription tale, I really wanted to try and align the value that the client receives to what they're paying for that time and effort that goes into it. So I touch base with clients, but then when things happen, I've got a question about an inheritance or a bonus that happened. Where does it fit within my plan? We schedule some time together and then they receive an invoice for the hours that we work together.

Shelby Nicholl: 14:03

Okay, that's great. I mean, I love the very, as you said at the very beginning, the complete transparency of this approach and the empowerment that you're giving them as well.

Julia Lilly: 14:15

I think it's a growing space. you know, especially for the individuals that just want to say, I don't want to touch this. I need someone else to place all the trades. I'm not the right solution for them right now, but as we continue to build out better robo platforms and things where the investment management piece can just be kind of a set it and forget it, this advice only, Partnership with a model like that starts to really get some legs. So it's exciting. It's growing. There's a number of us that are moving in this direction.

Shelby Nicholl: 14:46

I was doing some research and prep for this podcast, and one of the things I loved about your particular website was that you kind of named your ideal client. Can you talk about who your ideal client is?

Julia Lilly: 14:59

They definitely need to be tech savvy to a certain degree because I'm a virtual firm and we meet on the computer. for Houston clients, I have met in person, but primarily we meet through tech. So that's kind of the table stakes. And then from there, it's individuals who do feel comfortable being in the driver's seat of their plan, who don't want to take what I call is more the ostrich approach, you know, head in the sand, I don't want to look at it. Instead, they're interested in really prioritizing their financial picture and bringing it into focus. So I would say those are the two big kind of caveats. And then as to where they are in their life's journey, Where some clients I'm working with earlier on in their careers, some are more in that kind of the meat of their career. And what does this look like and how much longer do I need to do the grind? More looking for that validation. And then I've worked with clients that are on the doorstep or just starting. Retirement, really trying to make sure that they're structured correctly for that decumulation phase of life that they're headed into.

Shelby Nicholl: 16:04

you also mentioned a moment ago that you're a solopreneur. it's a balancing act for sure as a solopreneur. How did you know how to set up this type of practice, right? Cause it is a growing space. It's a new way of doing this business in some ways. how did you know how to set up your practice? What does compliance look like? I know there's tons of like operational kind of questions in here for me.

Julia Lilly: 16:29

So there are a ton of questions and some of it is you try it, and figure it out as you kind of continue to build the ship while you're flying. But there are a lot of resources. XY Planning Network was really invaluable to me on just kind of getting started. And I had done a lot of research. So finding the right resources and building out my advisor network on other individuals who are going through this similar journey. I think we might have even laughed about this, Shelby, at one of our earlier conversations, but these mastermind groups are kind of unique to the financial advisor landscape. I always laugh at the name. I don't understand why we're called mastermind groups. But those have been fantastic on making that solopreneur journey, less isolating, less lonely, and really a spot to throw ideas at, ask for validation, ask for recommendations. That's where early on I got the compliance suggestions. the kind of what is your tech stack look like? How do you optimize? All of that came from those discussions, as well as the resources that were available to me. When I first launched, I was very excited and passionate about hourly. And that's where I started. But I've pivoted to where hourly is great, but when I want to do the approach I want to do where it's less whack a mole is what I described. When you just do hourly, we're going to maybe solve a problem over here and create another problem over here. So that to me felt too frustrating where I wasn't really helping the client look at their whole picture. I wanted to move away from, hey, this email took me 10 minutes and I need to bill at this hourly rate. The stickiness of that, there's enough inertia and friction to people wanting to prioritize the financial planning tasks. I wanted to remove that. And so that's where I moved to this four month planning journey for a flat fee and then hourly Thereafter, again, trying to make it as transparent as possible, but remove the friction of people being hesitant to connect and not wanting to prioritize moving through the journey. instead these, some of the engagements would go on a year versus really just making it done so that they feel like they're in a good spot.

Shelby Nicholl: 18:46

So I want to go back to one of the things that you mentioned a moment ago, which was the mastermind groups. because I think When people have kind of grown up in traditional firms, you get that within your regions, you get that within your local office, etc. And when you are a solopreneur, You have to seek out the learning opportunities and the peer group learning in a little bit of a different way. Talk about masterminds and how you found those groups, are you still part of one, et cetera.

Julia Lilly: 19:22

That's the hard part but the XY planning network as part of a firm launch. You get assigned to a mastermind group with other firms that are in the same space. And some are more active and dedicated members within that group than others. We started with probably 10 in our group. And now there's a little cohort of three of us that meet more or less every two weeks. And it's really fantastic. It's been, this whole journey actually has been so cool on the power of the internet. To connect because I'm a virtual firm and I'm located in Texas. My mastermind group is Bay Area and San Francisco. And then the other woman is in Tennessee. We've never met in person, but I feel this strong connection with them. We've kind of gone through this and we're growing up together with the firms. And that's been awesome. And then NAPFA is another great resource that's connected me with more of a mentoring circle, creating some of that networking opportunities as well. It's really a matter of making sure it's a priority that you show up. Even if you don't have a pressing issue to solve. One, you could learn from the other questions that get asked by other people on the group. You're able to bounce ideas naturally off of people, but when you're just in, I kind of call it the echo chamber. I laughed with my group where it's like, this sounded like a great idea when I was just pitching it to myself, but how does this sound against everybody else? So it's been valuable. Also partnering with even just these other resources, like SCORE is a program through the Small Business Association. I got paired with a mentor for free. It's a retiree who's specialized in marketing. And all of those kind of scaffolding together have helped give me more of a sense of community as I embark on this kind of solo journey. It feels less isolating.

Shelby Nicholl: 21:12

That's wonderful. I think it's, So important to feel connection and being a woman in this industry. That's part of it, right? There's so many more men than there are women, being a solopreneur working from home, It is important to find those connections. One of the things I've been thinking about, even for myself, as I continue to build my consulting practice connecting with other people on specific topics like marketing, etc. And you mentioned, your mentor Has that been an approach that you've done and has that provided value for you?

Julia Lilly: 21:46

Yeah, no, that was extremely valuable. She was great. Very thoughtful, super follow up notes, really added value and pushed me. She served as the accountability partner that I try to serve with my clients. We would meet and she'd be like, Hey, you said you were going to do this. What happened? It was really, really valuable. One other program I forgot to mention that I was part of is that my husband was in the military. And so I was eligible as a military spouse to join a program called Bunker Labs. that's a program six month journey where other solopreneurs, other entrepreneurs who are launching things, it doesn't have to be just financial services, but we met on a weekly basis and that it's all about finding the right group. That's going to hold you accountable. And keep you making progress.

Shelby Nicholl: 22:34

Yeah, I appreciate that so much. I think that's where I'm at even right now in my journey as a, entrepreneur as well is finding that scaffolding of people and then also figuring out what are the places that I like to work and the things I like to do and what are the things that I need to hire out, et cetera. I think when you first go independent or you become a solopreneur, You're sorting through those things in real time, like you said, building the plane as you're flying it at the same time.

Julia Lilly: 23:03

totally and trying to really do it all yourself because you're bootstrapping and you need to make it all as lean and mean as possible, but then trying to shift into, okay, that growth mindset of not getting stuck. where do I want to be three to five years? And what do I need to put in place to get there? I recently just started using an AI note taker. Realistically, I can take the notes afterwards, but it's been really nice. One, to just feel like I'm staying current with everything that's happening in the industry, but it's been also great to help optimize my process. Some of those notes that are getting captured with the AI note taker, Help alleviate some of the time and pressure that I was putting on myself to take copious notes. I can use that as a tool to reference back to. So it's finding those things to plug into, but it's also, you don't know what you don't know, and you want to make sure whatever you try works for the longer term so that you're not just too noisy and distracting from the work you're trying to do.

Shelby Nicholl: 24:05

That's a great point. Tell me about what you're doing in order to track maybe leads and leads of potential clients that you might work with and clients. Do you use the CRM? Is, are you at that point where you needed that yet?

Julia Lilly: 24:20

Yeah, I don't necessarily have to use the CRM right now, but I really like trying to create that as just part of my workflow so that it's natural, everything's documented from a compliance standpoint, but I definitely use the CRM and I've tried different pieces within the CRM to track not only where they are in their journey, that they're currently clients, but also building those workflows to track Prospects, who have I reached out to, tracking some of the marketing efforts that I'm doing, the CRM is valuable for sure. And using it before I think I need it. You know, part of me in the early days is like, Oh, it's fine. I can just do them in the spreadsheet, but the spreadsheet becomes cumbersome and much more time intensive quickly. So that's the goal is to make sure that you're using those tools to allow you to free up time to do other things.

Shelby Nicholl: 25:09

That's right. You know, you talked earlier about kind of the growth in this fee only as a method of providing advice and you talked also about your practice and growth goals. What are your growth goals for your practice in these next few years?

Julia Lilly: 25:26

where I am, I mean you're similar journey. Time is the most precious commodity, you know, trying to balance building this with the school calendars. I've got three young kids as well. So my five years is to continue to grow, but in a way that doesn't completely burn me out. And so finding that balance of how many clients on a regular basis, I do think five to six. Just myself is kind of right now my cap. So maybe in two to three years, bringing on someone else to continue to grow the business. I'm excited about that being kind of the growth strategy going forward because My model does require more time intensive. You know, it's not as much just get the assets into the accounts and then I don't talk to someone maybe for a year, maybe two years, but I'm still getting paid by just having those assets on my books. Instead, mine is a more time intensive journey. And so marrying that balance of kind of what's the right pricing structure that I'm getting the right clients that want to work with me as well as my staffing and kind of my expense side. So, right now, I'm kind of in the sweet spot, but in 3 to 5 years, my goal would be hopefully to bring on another planner that would take on some of that client work so that we could grow the number of people were able to serve.

Shelby Nicholl: 26:43

Oh, that's great. I think you'll be able to really grow that impact in the clients, like you said, let's talk about other trends and things that you're seeing in financial planning or in the operations of a practice like you. I love this AI conversation that we've been having. what other things should advisors be sort of looking for?

Julia Lilly: 27:02

The AI and just in general being tech first where clients, you know, I don't see them in person. They're not bringing paper documents It's been fascinating to me the psychology not only of people's money, but then also psychology around data and sharing It's been really interesting some clients that I've worked with don't want to share any data They need to redact everything and I say, okay, I want to work with you, but I have to To be able to see some things. And then there's other clients that are like, record it, put it anywhere. I don't care. And they're sending, you know, emails with documents attached. So it runs the gamut. That's been one of the trickier parts is just making sure everyone's educated on the right channels, being transparent with the client. I sometimes laugh that I'm a bit of the conspiracy theorist. You know, I, I do have worries about data and data integrity, so I might be overly concerned, but that's something that I'm really passionate about making sure that the client feels confident that their data is safe. It's in a third party vendor, you know, really trying to be as open about how I'm managing all of that as possible. So from an operations standpoint, that's the biggest one for me that I worry about is like cyber security and, and it's been interesting trying to educate myself on all of that. It's just an interesting world on kind of how to manage the operations and make sure you're doing it correctly.

Shelby Nicholl: 28:23

what are some of the tools that you're using there? Are you using like a Dropbox or is Dropbox secure enough? Or what are you choosing for your data sharing, foldering system?

Julia Lilly: 28:33

it's been a little all over the map, but I do lean on those third party vendors to make sure that they're following their protocols. The hard part is we can do the best that we can and huge industry players are still hacked. You know, so it's, it's a tricky, to navigate and trying to make the client feel as confident as possible that I'm doing the best I can to keep the information secure.

Shelby Nicholl: 29:00

Yeah, I especially love hearing that you are not using Generally sending those documents through email, etc. I've heard of a couple of cases when I was still in the corporate ranks and was working on securities based lending where even things like, ACH instructions and wire instructions Mid email string. That email had been hacked and gave me the wrong wire instructions as a bank and now I have wired money somewhere to a fraudster, right? Instead of it going to your title company when you were buying a home, as an example.

Julia Lilly: 29:36

Yeah. It's, it is crazy. One of my first jobs was working actually at the Missouri, Attorney General's office in the Consumer Protection Division. So maybe that's what created this conspiracy theorist thing in me of really being hypervigilant on how sneaky some of the things can be on grabbing emails or credit card data at the grocery store. it's definitely top of mind for me, especially when I'm trying to implement and incorporate tech tools, in an efficient way.

Shelby Nicholl: 30:07

Absolutely.

Julia Lilly: 30:08

other piece of the planning process that I do, I'm not a CPA, but I do help with tax strategy. And so I do need clients tax returns, which that for me is the most sensitive data that I get. You know, I need statements, but it doesn't have social security numbers on it, but the tax documents I do need. And so the tool I use is called Holista plan and I'm vigilant on, and they do a great job of data security. But those are the things that I worry about as the business owner to kind of think about my vulnerabilities.

Shelby Nicholl: 30:39

Yeah, you have a great tech stack. RightCapital is so good. HolistaPlan is really well known and just a great tool. I hear advisors all the time singing the praises of HolistaPlan. for your CRM, are you using Wealthbox or what do you

Julia Lilly: 30:53

I use, I use Wealthbox.

Shelby Nicholl: 30:55

I'm a huge fan. Huge fan of Wealthbox. Yeah,

Julia Lilly: 30:57

and even Holista plan early on when you're like, which ones am I going to incorporate? You think, Oh, I can just look at the returns myself. It has been such a time saver and a fantastic tool to use on the fly with clients. It's invaluable.

Shelby Nicholl: 31:11

yeah, I hear a lot of times of advisors talking about how they have found errors in client tax returns by running them through Holista plan. And either then they can, you know, choose to act on those or not, but it's, it's an interesting conversation sometimes with their CPA partners as a result. well we are coming up on time and I want to ask kind of in closing today, what is, what is your advice that you would give to other financial planners who are considering the different models and specifically this fee for advice fee for planning approach.

Julia Lilly: 31:47

gosh, that's a great question. So I would encourage people to look around, talk with other advisors who are doing the different models to get a better handle on the pros and cons, because there truly are pros and cons to all of the models. And just making sure that whatever route you choose. That it's ethical, that it's done according to kind of the way you feel passionate about delivering financial services. But I will just toot the horn of recommending exploring all the options and talking to people because it is getting more confusing and the kind of traditional route of just going insurance sales or that AUM model is evolving. I think it's exciting to be part of. It's just figuring out the right way. And how to partner where you don't necessarily have to build your own, but you can kind of fold within a practice in order to get that experience.

Shelby Nicholl: 32:40

One of the things I just love about this interview and your story is how deeply you are committed to transparency and to transparency with the clients and their fees, transparency in how you work, etc.

Julia Lilly: 32:56

Yeah, it's exciting. I'm keen on putting individual investors in the driver's seat so that they feel more knowledgeable about why they hold different things in their investment strategy. But then broader than that even, it's the insurance, it's your cash flow, it's what are your goals. because it's a lot easier to manage your budget. When you're focused on, I want to make sure I can retire at X date or go on this huge trip and keeping those in focus. So, really trying to bring the holistic conversation I think it really needs to be more on how we can continue to help. Impact clients earlier on their journey so that they can get to the 3 million. I was like, how can you be that coach and partner?

Shelby Nicholl: 33:36

I couldn't agree more. Thank you so much, Julia, for being here today on the podcast. I really appreciate it.

Julia Lilly: 33:43

Thank you for the conversation. It was great. It was great to see you and excited to be part of your Muriel network and just continue to see this space grow.

Shelby Nicholl: 33:51

Oh, I can't wait to hear about your practice growth over the next several years. I have no doubts that you're going to be so successful. Thank you.

Julia Lilly: 33:57

Shelby great to see you.